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Post by David on Apr 29, 2005 14:38:27 GMT -5
Something that's come up in several recent games is the actual speed a person runs/flies/swims at. While the Dnd system has been notoriously lame in this regard for some time, I proposed a band-aid for this. I would like to a) recap the changes I made and b) make sure this makes sense to everyone (i.e. people who know more about this topic than I do -- like Elf).
A character can move x10 times their movement rate in feet per round. So a character with a move of 12" can do 120' per round. That comes out to about 8 miles per hour or about 7.5 minute mile. A character can keep up this rate of exertion for one minute per point of Constitution (just like combat). I would call this "jogging".
A character can move at x15 times their movement rate ("running"), but may only do this for HALF their Con in minutes (these rounds count for double, basically). This gives a normal human a running speed of 12.3 mph or just under a 5 minute mile.
A character can move at x20 times their movement rate ("sprinting"), but may only do this for their Con in ROUNDS (these rounds count for sextuple, basically). This gives a normal human a running speed of 16.4 mph or about 2/3s of the human speed record (200m, 10.35 m/s, 23.3 mph).
Translating these values to fast horses, they can gallop at 24.5 mph (run) and race at 32.7 mph, which is close to real records -- 38.4 is one of the fastest horse times, but just as with humans, individual horses may have speed modifiers to enhance their numbers.
Translating this to flying and soaring creatures, this means a pegasus' average flight speed can remain 48 miles per hour, but can speed up to 65 mph. Yes, not perfect, but it's decent and doesn't require any monkeying with the rules.
Now, I will give you that this system has a problem mapping to some real-life animals (the running speed of lions comes to mind), but for the general case, I think it works.
Thoughts?
David
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Post by Admin on Apr 29, 2005 17:05:55 GMT -5
This all sounds good.
One question...are we doing away with the movement rate modifiers based on strength and dex? Or will that still come up on a scenario by scenario basis when "who's faster" comes into play?
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Post by David on Apr 29, 2005 17:14:57 GMT -5
I actually alluded to this in my message, when I mentioned that individual horses would have different speeds, just like individual people. The speed modifiers for high strength and dexterity will still apply, although I may need to adjust the specifics so no PC gets to break any world records. I see that as a fine point for later.
David
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Post by Andy on May 3, 2005 18:07:49 GMT -5
Before I convert all these things to real life (mostly it's easier to think in terms of yards) here's some rough points of reference. First of all, overall this seems pretty good. Some things seem just a little fast, but that's probably overall okay in a society that spends more time outdoors excercising. Jogging - not bad. Without any training or practice (and, I'd argue I didn't have all my stats yet) I did a 6:18 mile in freshman gym class, so +:45 to that makes a reasonable average. I'd guess nearly all of the orther frosh were done after 8:00-8:15. Assuming an average con, normal people will start to drop after 10-13 minutes of this activity, I'd say about right. Running - just under a 5 minute mile is pretty smoking fast. I personally, at my best was never able to average faster than that for more than about 3000 yards. My best 2-mile, on a tartan track with spikes and barely clothed as a senior in HS was 10:05. IIRC, that averages out to ~66 second quarters. That put me 2nd or 3rd overall in our (1A) league and I advanced to CIF with that time. My best mile under the same conditions was in the 4:40s. In retrospect, I think my main limitation to going faster was a lack of ST more than anything else. Sprinting - it's interesting how this goes - for regular in-relatively-good-shape (again comparing adventurers to HS athletes) people, they can sprint for about 300 yards before they start to really feel a lot of pain. A sub-60 second quarter was noteable in this case, 53s and under outstanding. I could do about a 63-64 with 5 minutes rest after running the 2-mile as hard as I could, but I never practiced at that race. Without getting to Championsish, I'd wonder if you were planning on keeping track of all these rounds seperately, though - "I sprint for 10 rounds, jog for 3, then run for 7, how tired am I?" question is bound to come up. The idea of backing off for a few rounds IMHO is completely applicable to real life when it comes to resting up, and pushing on. At the point of running out of running out of Con, there's another thing to note too - what happens? You don't collapse immediately, because that's where the best competition happens. There should be some kind of check to see if you're mentally in the game (WS doesn't seem like the best choice, but it is willpower & focus you're talking about), morale, fear, etc, should all play a part. In fact, I'd argue that I have a skill in making others fail these checks, in essence psyching them out when engaged head to head in an endurance contest. Lastly, Armor and encumbrance have got to play a role in this. Given those things, a character should be (A) prohibited from using the faster movement rates (you can't sprint in plate unless you have superhuman ST and DX) and (B) you'll get more encumbered while trying it. Also, perception checks for things outside a direct line of sight should drop off dramatically after exceeding the 'jogging' level. Just some thoughts.  Andy |
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Post by David on May 4, 2005 11:29:15 GMT -5
Without getting to Championsish, I'd wonder if you were planning on keeping track of all these rounds seperately, though - "I sprint for 10 rounds, jog for 3, then run for 7, how tired am I?" question is bound to come up. The idea of backing off for a few rounds IMHO is completely applicable to real life when it comes to resting up, and pushing on. Actually, I keep track of this now and have at least since the Battle of the Valley of Nine. If you'll recall, one of the reasons that those heroes needed such high AC was in order to survive even after fatigue (see below) set in. My rule of thumb is you get as many minutes of combat as your Con, then you pretty much fall down and try to breathe. With the addition/clarification of different speeds, I want people to understand what they're getting in for when they say "I sprint up to the monster!" At the point of running out of running out of Con, there's another thing to note too - what happens? You don't collapse immediately, because that's where the best competition happens. There should be some kind of check to see if you're mentally in the game (WS doesn't seem like the best choice, but it is willpower & focus you're talking about), morale, fear, etc, should all play a part. In fact, I'd argue that I have a skill in making others fail these checks, in essence psyching them out when engaged head to head in an endurance contest. I was using rules of my own design, but plan to start using the fatigue rules for mages instead (they work better IMNSHO). I'll send them out later in the week (I'm in conferences all this week). Basically, first dex drops, then the other physical stats do. At 1/2 your Con in minutes, you start making checks... Lastly, Armor and encumbrance have got to play a role in this. Given those things, a character should be (A) prohibited from using the faster movement rates (you can't sprint in plate unless you have superhuman ST and DX) and (B) you'll get more encumbered while trying it. Also, perception checks for things outside a direct line of sight should drop off dramatically after exceeding the 'jogging' level. Armor and encumbrance do figure quite heavily into fatigue calculations. There actually reaches a point where an armored person has to shuck his mail or rest. David |
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Post by Andy on May 5, 2005 18:42:02 GMT -5
Well, that all sounds good. I definitely do like having dex fall off at high encumbrance levels. You see that skiing as well, where toward the end of the day, people start falling down making what were previously routine manouvers. The amusing part is that people that aren't used to excercising as much don't realize they're as tired as they are...until it's too late.  |
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Post by David on Jul 13, 2006 18:46:07 GMT -5
Ran into some more, supporting facts today. Did you know that nearly all birds fly between 25mph (kestrel, slower crows) and 30mph (ducks, geese, faster crows). Sure, hawks are 60mph, but only for a short time. So the idea that a griffon can fly (with a passenger) an average of 30mph suddenly doesn't seem so slow.
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Post by charbidge on Jul 14, 2006 15:50:39 GMT -5
Wait till you've tried hang-gliding! It gets you pretty lose to what a bird is doing (to say nothing of the "ohgodohgodohgodgodIwanttoSCREAMwithjoy!" feeling).
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Post by charbidge on Jul 14, 2006 15:51:35 GMT -5
Pretty CLOSE, not lose. Sorry, I'm a lousy proof-reader.
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Post by David on Jul 14, 2006 18:00:13 GMT -5
Howdy Craig,
Actually, until I broke my arms (in an unrelated incident), I was working on getting my hang-glider pilot's license. I didn't know you flew too. One of the bummers for me these days is that Mission Soaring doesn't have a glider big enough for me...8-(
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Post by Andy on Jul 17, 2006 17:32:54 GMT -5
Racing pigeons are routinely clocked at over 90mph average between two points. Swallows put down pretty good average speeds over very very long distances too. I think it would be funny to see someone like Gamoth ride in on a Animal-Growthed pidgeon because that was the fastest way to get somewhere.  Ran into some more, supporting facts today. Did you know that nearly all birds fly between 25mph (kestrel, slower crows) and 30mph (ducks, geese, faster crows). Sure, hawks are 60mph, but only for a short time. So the idea that a griffon can fly (with a passenger) an average of 30mph suddenly doesn't seem so slow. |
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Post by charbidge on Jul 18, 2006 18:30:42 GMT -5
During the Battle of Bunker Hill (actually Breed's hill), it took the pack-laden and musket carrying British soldiers twenty (20) seconds to charge one hundred yards from the foot of the hill, (when the Rebels fired a volley) to reach the trench near the top of the hill, allowing JUST enough time for the Rebels to reload and blast them to pieces at practicall NO range. When I was a high-school sprinter I ran the hundred yard dash (on a level track in sprinter spikes and shorts) in ten seconds and the world's record was nine point one. Sixty pounds of gear and a fifteen pound weapon can REALLY slow you down!
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