Divine power and worshiper density

[David]

So, I've always held that gods need to be worshipped in order to maintain their power. Call it the Maltheist in me. And several Dnd authors have used the same -- heck it's a major portion of Spell Jammer and Planescape.

Now, the difference is that I've tried to codify and qualify these traits -- I want more than just "cuz the DM said so" to be the reason that Uzelbleck can't grant high level spells. So I worked out a god-to-worshipper ratio that establishes how many followers must believe in the divinity of a power for it to have a given level of spiritual might.

This message is because I think I made an unrealistic goof in there and would like to use the following for a correction.

Worshippers	Lvl of Spells	Power Level
1	1st	none (delusion or minor, local spirit)
10	2nd	none (minor spirit)
100	3rd	lesser spirit, minor hero
1000	4th	lesser spirit, great hero
10,000	5th	greater spirit, demi-god
100,000	6th	greatest spirit, lesser god
1,000,000	7th	greater god

The worshippers must either be living followers or those who died within the faith. I was thinking, however, that as time passed, dead followers "decayed" at a rate of like one per year per category.

Using these ideas, it actually becomes possible to have greater gods in a pre-modern world (given that there are around 25+ deities per pantheon, at least six major pantheons for Oerik alone, and the population of the continent is about 12 million, it would still take at least 10 generations to reach sufficient support for a greater god).

[glow=yellow,2,300]What does this mean and why do I care?[/glow]
Well, most people won't care. For the clerics on Torsh it means that Ra GRANTS 3rd level spells now and is gearing up for 4th level spells. As a result Tea, Finn, and company are free to return to Oerth. Ishmopah is probably approaching 3rd level spells from Sekhmet in the near future too.

For plane- and world-hoppers, generating lower level clerical support has become MUCH easier. And small churchs can quickly support minor miracles.

Thoughts?

[Andy]

Cool. Jyoli will work on the other 500K necessary to get Erevan Ileserie bumped up the ladder.

[David]

Uh, it doesn't quite work like that. You can always have MORE worshippers than needed, but that doesn't evolve you for all worlds just because ONE world is infatuated with you. Unfortunately, I must maintain an entire multiverse, which means I need to accept a universal order (or sorts). Thus, even if Lolth gets a whole planet to worship her, she remains a lesser goddess. Now, if she got several THOUSAND worlds doing that...

[Andy]

Ah, I see...which also means that blowing up a planet of Lolth-workshippers for example doesn't necessarily knock her offline everywhere else. Very good. Good thing elves live a long time.

[Andy]

Wait a minute, how come Borlon didn't need to convert 100 worshippers on 100 different worlds then? How does the chart resolve itself in planar-local vs. universal appeal?

If someone blew up the Old Neeshfal pleateau, would not Ra's influence on Torsh wane? I suppose these are two different things (bringing a god to a new world vs. upping an existing god) but I'd still interested in your explanation. (In your copious free time.)

[David]

Hello Elf,

It's questions like these that I actually find refressing and helpful. I appreciate you posing these "how does it work" cosmology sort of queries.

I would assume that Borlon's patron deity, Ra, a great god of the Egyptian pantheon, has billions of worshippers on thousands of worlds. So his "to be a Greater God" requirements are totally met.

In order to manifest as a greater god on Torsh, however, Ra needs at least a million active worshippers (or arguably, the souls of former worshippers from that world, minus one soul per year or some other "fading" effect, thus allowing gods to fall from power). Now, he has something like 850 or more on Torsh right now, thus allowing him to manifest as a lesser spirit or minor hero. Soon, however, he'll be able to act as a great hero and even grant 4th lvl spells. At no point do Ra's PERSONAL powers get changed, merely what he can "bring with him" to Torsh. Think of it as a sort of divine luggage alotment. Passengers (god) who have nicer tickets, such as business or first class, (more worshippers and tough temples) get to bring more on the plane (to the world) than schlubs with cheap, economy tickets (petty spirits). Does that make sense?

[Jeff]

So, this caught my eye. A question:

Helga worships Haela Brightaxe. On Oerth (a predominately human planet) the worshiper base is rather small, in accordance with the small amount of dwarves and her position as a lesser god of the Dwarvish Pantheon.

For some undefined reason, Helga now travels to Maldev (a plane inhabited by a much larger population of dwarves), would Haela be "bumped up" and accounted the powers and influence of a lesser god, simply because a higher base population of dwarves implies more worshipers, even if she still has a lesser position within the Dwarven pantheon?

[David]

Howdy Jeff,

Great question, actually. I've played with this a little and have come up with this model.

Gods have a "maximum" power and a "manifestable" power. In the case of the gods found on Oerth, this is the same, as these deities have been around for a while and are now well-established. In the case of travelers to new worlds, the god's power might suffer. So, for instance, although Ra is a greater god in general, his influence of Torsh is just now reaching that of a demi-god (and that due to a divine quest from his head cleric!). So, unless the DM has a great reason, gods won't "power up" elsewhere from the standard game worlds, but could power down. Make sense?

[iroxinping]

I like it would explain how a templar could come from Dark Sun and still be able to cast spells since his God Dragon would be considered a "real" god. If just lower level spells.