the Gladiator

[David]

Here are my notes:

Fighter sub-class -- unless otherwise noted, treat as a fighter

Hit Dice: d8, but two at first level and max of 12 at 11th level

Weapons: two + one every four
Only ONE ranged weapon initially and over half of all weapons must be melee
Non-weapons: one
Non-weapon penalty: -2 (generally), but -1 if a related weapons known
Specialization: none allowed at first level
Poison and Oil Use?: No

Armor: leather, studded leather, piecemeal (chest plate and greaves, for instance), and elven chain, plus helm

Number of Attacks: as Samurai == 1st to 4th is x1, 5th to 8th is x3/2, 9th to 12th is x2, etc
Armor Class Bonus: as Mariner == +2 if light armor worn, add +1 more at 7th and 13th

Social Level: -2 initial penalty with +1 each time a weapon is gained (4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, etc)

[gordon]

OK Boys and Girls, Here is a link to the original Gladiator class I created www.gordon-fernandes.com/Gladiators/Index.html. Also here it is in plane old .txt

[gordon]

Gladiators
In general, gladiators were condemned criminals, prisoners of war, or slaves bought for the purpose of gladiatorial combat by a lanista, or owner of gladiators. Professional gladiators were free men who volunteered to participate in the games. In The Satyricon, Petronius suggested that Roman crowds preferred combat by free men over that of slaves. For example, the character of Echion is excited about games in which free men, "not a slave in the batch," will fight. Though low on the social scale, free men often found popularity and patronage of wealthy Roman citizens by becoming gladiators. The emperor Augustus sought to preserve the pietas and virtus of the knight class and Roman senate by forbidding them to participate in gladiatorial combat. Later, Caligula and Nero would order both groups to participate in the games.

As a gladiator, a man gained immediate status even though the gladiatorial oath forced him to act as a slave to his master and "to endure branding, chains, flogging, or death by the sword". Gladiators were required to do what their lanista ordered and therefore were revered for their loyalty, courage and discipline.

Gladiators in the AD&D world class requirements:
Those wishing to become a Gladiator must have Strength of no less than 14, Dexterity of 12, and Constitution of 14. Also, in the name of putting on a good show, a high Charisma is beneficial for those in this class. The Gladiator with charisma of 14 or above will gain an extra 10% profit in the ring and + 5% for every point above 14. Because of the nature of this class, those free men who volunteered to become Gladiators can not be of any good alignment, and "in the name of putting on a good show", are restricted to a certain number of weapons, skills, and light armor and are forbidden to use any kind of Spell Casting, Psionics, or Poison in the ring.
The Gladiator starts with two weapon skills and one skill from the lists below and gains one new weapon every other level. Characters of any race can become Gladiators, but the most common are Humans, Half Orcs, and Krats.

Gladiators use the same savings and experience point tables as Fighters and get a +2 on Fear and Morale checks. They have a d12 for hit points, and because of their intensive training in combat they fight as one level above their own. “ie a 5 level Gladiator has the same THACO as a 6 level fighter”.

Restrictions for the Gladiator

Number of Attacks
As a Samurai == 1st to 4th is x1, 5th to 8th is x3/2, 9th to 12th is x2, etc

Armor Class Bonus
As the Mariner == +2 if light armor worn, add +1 more at 7th and 13th

Armor
None, Padded, Leather, Studded Leather, Banded, Lamellar or chest plate.
Any Type of Helm including Full Face.
Shields of any type (Buckler, Small, Medium and Tower)

Weapons
Axe, Battle Axe, Bolas, Club, Spiked Club, Fighting Claws, Dagger, Punch Dagger/Katana, Footman's Flail, Specked Chain, Military Fork, Glaive, Guisarme, Guisarme-Voulge, Halberd, Javelin, Footman's Mace, Hammer, Hammer, Lucerne, Man Catcher, Net, Partisan, Ranseur, Long Spear, Short Spear, Short Sword, Long Sword, Broad Sword, Bastard Sword, Two Handed Sword, Scimitar, Great Scimitar, Falchion, Great Falchion, Spiked Buckler, Short Bow, Trident, Voulge, Whip.

Suggested Secondary Skills.
Blind Fight, Combat Dodge, Exotic Weapon Use, Find Weakness, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Martial Arts, Ride, Ride/Drive Chariot, Two Weapon Fighting, Shield Use, Perform.

[gordon]

Level 1 - Two Weapons, One Skill - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Pit Fighter - Social Level 0
Level 2 - One Weapon - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Pit Fighter - Social Level 1
Level 3 - One Skill - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Pit Fighter - Social Level 1
Level 4 - One Weapon - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Master Pit Fighter - Social Level 2
Level 5 - One Skill - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Gladiator - Social Level 3
Level 6 - One Weapon - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Gladiator - Social Level 3
Level 7 - One Skill - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Free Gladiator - Social Level 4
Level 8 - One Weapon - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Master Gladiator - Social Level 5
Level 9 - One Skill - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Master Gladiator - Social Level 6
Level 10 - One Weapon - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Lanista Gladiator - Social Level 7
Level 11 - One Skill - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Master Lanista Gladiator - Social Level 8
Level 12 - One Weapon - Hit Dice One D 12 - Title Master Lanista Gladiator - Social Level 9

[Eric]

It would be a MONSTER! Can I play the first one with Gordons rules? Can I can I?

The bonuses

1) Fighters THAC0 +1 lvl
2) Weapon ever other lvl
3) Samurai # of attacks
4) Mariner AC bonus
5) +2 fear checks
6) social lvl bonus almost every lvl
7) 10% bonus earnings for high CHA
8) All Weapons
9) All Shields
10) D12 HP's

The negatives

1) Restricted armor
2) Low starting Social lvl
3) No posions, spells, psionics
4) Less Non-Weapons

It's to uber without the changes. But I'll still play one.

[Eric]

I'm just throwing stuff around. Think about this kind of stuff...

Unable to kill a helpless victim without the approval of someone with him. Thumbs up thumbs down

Can't stand taking prisoners. Because of his years as a slave.

Charm and domination style spells are hated dark arts to him because of his past of being forced to fight and kill on others whims.

Gets a benefit when fighting in front of a crowd 10 people or more.

Must fight in the arena and win to get lvl 3, 5, 7, 9, 11. lvl 3, 5 can be local brawls in front of a crowd 40+ for money. 7, 9, 11 must be in front of a 300+ crowd.

A Gladiator must be lawful. They can NEVER say no to a thumbs down.

These are just idea's to bring more defects and round out the guy more.

[Rachel]

Lol.....how about this one... ;D

Gladiators can't use magic items, because they enhance the body's performance like steroids. The Gladiator's strength, flexibility, quick thinking, and ability to adapt is what keeps him alive, and he would pride himself in how he has trained his body for combat. Using magical armors/weapons/jewelry/potions/buffs that enhance stats/damage/AC would be considered cheating.

An exception would be healing items (potions, etc.), which can only be used AFTER the encounter is finished.

[Eric]

Thats a good one . I like it, it's MEAN! Having that might even balance out the d12 hp's.

He can used blessed weapons, they can hit magic creatures but don't help with attack or damage.

[Artec]

Not using any magic items would make him really weak character to play. Then a regular fighter would be able to defeat a gladiator because the fighter will have magic, sword, armor, weapons and so forth. Maybe the gladiator can be limited to what level he start using magic a little like the barbarian class.

[Rachel]

Aww, c'mon. You're no fun, Ray.

[Jeff]

I side with ray. Use the UA barbarian, except change the limits so that they can always associate with clerics and mages. They may think magic is weak, but that doesn't mean that it is forbidden.

[Artec]

you try fighting nake with just a sword and a net sometime, its not easy Rachel. Sharp pointy things get caught. Even blunt ones, ouch. hehehe

[aaronthecow]

you could also have the kensi/monk thing were they have to chalange somone to level up at higher levels.

[Eric]

That is sort of what I mean by having to fight and WIN to get lvl's.

[David]

Howdy folks,

So, I LOVE this dialog -- this sharing of viewpoints is what makes for a good development process and vetting of creation.

A couple of things to think about, I think...

First, for a Gladiator to be a successful class it's going to need a reasonable eep table. "Why?" you may ask? Simple, cuz if the perks of the class require too tough an eep table then the Gladiator won't be able to compete with a straight fighter and therefore, given the conditions the Gladiator class lives under, would NOT survive. I can understand a few perks and a slightly harder eep table, but only at the cost of focusing the class purely on hand-to-hand, grand-standing combat. For every perk, there needs to be a disadvantage OR the eep table should be harder.

Weapons: so Gladiators need to be able to "improvise" weapons and are mostly toe-to-toe combatants, thus this should be built into the class. I would say ANY weapon should be fair game BUT missile weapons discouraged -- so we have two initial weapons and only half (round down) of ALL weapons may be missile weapons (disad) BUT the definition of weapon family is broadened so that non-prof penalties are less (advantage). Specialization, poison, and oil are tucked in here too (all disads vs a straight fighter, but all minor). In total, a slight disadvantage.

Armor: people WANT to see the Gladiator's body and his blood, so armor that covers a lot is out. Similarly, banded mail is the armor of the military and likewise out. The Gladiator wants mobility! Thinking about it, I dunno why lamellar would be okay -- it's a form of scale, which is also a military armor. Thinking of the real Gladiators, they generally wore piecemeal leather (with or without studs) plus greaves and/or arm-guards and/or a chest plate, but it was all piecemeal -- no complete suits. Keeping the idea of the Mariner (flexibility and dodge!) then I would think padded, leather, studded leather, and elven chain are all good, plus piecemeal that does NOT inhibit movement (chest plate or greaves, etc). Helms are cool, as are shields. The armor restriction is more of a pain at higher level, but the AC bonus compensates, so I think it's balanced.

Non-weapons: starting with one is another disadvantage, albeit slight.

Attacks per round: this is a HUGE bonus! It easily balances everything discussed so far and THEN some!

Hit Dice: definitely an advantage to use d8s until at least 5th level -- and if the Gladiator has Con, then more like 8th...! That the Gladiator gets more HDs than a ranger is also a perk...!

Social Level penalties make sense, and balance, if there is a large upswing at higher levels.

Only barbarians have d12s for hit points because of how they were raised (sorry, barbarians are used in the arena because they're worthy opponents for gladiators; if gladiators already got the same HD type [d12s] then this would make no sense!). Thus, not only would giving d12s rob the barbarian of what makes THAT class unique, it just doesn't make sense.

There is no class which I am aware of that does X better than the parent class of X. Gladiators should be no exception. Thus, they should NOT fight better than fighters of the same level.

+2 vs fear works, but morale? That would mean these guys are more disciplined and devoted than life-long military officers. Sorry, that doesn't work either. Gladiators are SURVIVORS and as such would know when to cut and run BETTER than myrmidons or centurians...!

Social level bonuses should ONLY apply if the gladiator is doing lots of fights. Like a bard, it shouldn't be automatic, but rather a function of the CHARACTER's actions. Thus, if a gladiator is spending all his time in dungeons, he's a relative unknown and gains no bonus. In contrast, a gladiator that's in the arena all the time would be very well-known (but could only do limited, short adventures). I would think a modified version of the bard rules (more advantageous than the ones for bards even) should be used here -- we're comparing musicians and sports stars in our world.

I think they should be able to kill or not kill whomever they want, but definitely should have some ethical constraints -- I like Gordon's "not good if you chose this life". I would even go so far as to give 'em a +2 vs charms with a great hatred of charms and slavery in general. In contrast, I would say they're unlikely to be lawful -- they're individuals, not "one of the crowd" -- but all alignments should be possible with the right backstory.

Like a monk, druid, kensai, etc, I think that gladiators should have to win a fight to earn each level. Since they're from an unstructured world, make it 10% per level, so 20% to reach 2nd, 30% to reach 3rd, 40% to reach 4th, etc, just like a kensai. These are challengers who WANT to fight in public, even if it's unfair and/or impromptu.

I like getting some bonus for fighting in front of crowds. It should be small, but I'm not sure what. Maybe the benefit of a bless (+1 to hit and saves for the first minute)? That would reflect adrenelin rush and the adoration of the crowd, but it wears off...

I think magical item restrictions would be VERY mean. As Ray points out, it's VERY hard to keep up with mid-level characters if they get to use items but you don't. Plus, from a game perspective, the "best" treasure is now meaningless. Now, I would think that maybe protective scrolls could be off-limits, but I dunno if that's necesary.

So, whaddya think of my suggestions and logic?