In Sight of the Mountain

[adam]

So here we sit in sight of the smoking mountain. We are some number of degrees off of the entrance at which we can not see that there are some pretty tough looking guards. Our goal, as we have chosen to accept it, is to destroy our genie prison in the fires (lava) of the genie's forge.

The way I see it is we have the following basic options

(1) Front doors
(2) Fly over
(3) Climb mountain
(4) Get under somehow

With the following modifiers

(A) Brute force
(B) Sneak/sulk
(C) Trickery
(D) Speed

Factoids
-We know that flying is forbidden.
-We have been told as both characters and players that the front doors are pretty deadly (we are about ½ the level we would need to be).
-We have a fairly limited time we can spend here before we start loosing animals to lack of food.


David
-How high is the rim of the mountain and how much travel/climb time to get there?
-What do the sides of the mountain look like (terrain wise) [smooth level/rocky]
-Are there any obvious hiding places (ignore the oxymoron – like gullies, boulders etc)

General & David
It did not occur to me until last night that the prison might be occupied. Though I am not sure I understood that it was a prison and not a control device. If prison is occupied Orn would want to figure out how to free that poor bound genie. What happens to that possibly enlightened person if we destroy the prison (freed or killed). Can a genie freed inside the Genie's Anvil transport mortals out of the area, since mortals are not supposed to be here?

I think that our best bets are based on 3BCD combinations. Something along the lines of creating a distraction while some races to the top, but only after we have gotten as close as possible. The problem with this is that those who create the distraction will probably die. I would prefer a straight 3B choice where we head to the back side and sneakily climb up. (which of course probably looses us the camels/horses)

These are just starting points.

Adam

[sgeorge1701]

A frontal assault would be suicide AND we would fail. (There is honor in a suicide mission that accomplishes its goal at the expense of the team, but not in failing.).

I have preferred the method of climbing the back of the Volcano - at night or using invisibility potions/spells since the beginning.

Now, there is a literary item - the "literal" truth of the statement "No mortal shall fly within sight of the Genie's Forge". Like other great Mythologies (Don't look back as you lead your wife from Hades, putting rags and wax in your ears as you sail passed the Sirens, etc) I could blindfold myself as I deliver the Genie's prison to the Lava (yes that includes flying and invisible). So I would be fulfilling the Dictates, while accomplishing the task at great risk to myself. (as all good Heros should!)

I'm concerned about occupants of the Prison. Although I feel the evil sorceress we killed was using the "jailed" genie as minions. So currently, they were all on "duty" and the prison is empty. (no, I'm not 100% sure of that, but I feel that a selfish/self-important woman would be happier controlling minions than leaving a willing slave to sit and rot in a prison). (Unless of course she could only use certain prison cells each month).

Can we use Divination to determine the occupants? And how to release them?

We could leave a guard with the horses/camels at the far end of the Volcano, climb the sides at night, get to the lava, drop off the prison, return down the slopes, get back to our base camp and start riding out of "Genie Dodge" immediately.

Night, invisibility and the insane idea of scaling the back end of the volcano all work to our advantage.

Flint

[David]

Howdy Adam, Excellent summary!

The front doors are "possible" for folks of your level, but are likely to be deadly without an excellent plan. Fire giants are NASTY, but Sabuto, Flint, and Harbinder are within the range to take 'em. Unfortunately, Orn, Jamil, Jhiir, and Oohooh (the monkey) would become pancakes from one hit. So, taking these guys out IS possible, but it'll need an excellent plan to avoid fatalities (honestly, Harbinder could only survive a single hit in any event).

Harbinder does volunteer that short of actually falling into the lava, she can handle the heat for about an hour. Not sure if that helps, but it's something...

The top of the cone is well over 2000' above the desert sand. This volcano, to the modern geologist, does not appear to be natural. It rises at better than an average of a 45 degree angle -- 60 at the upper cone area! The doors are much easier to reach, being only bout 600' and having crude steps leading up (although that's "boulder alley" for the giants!).

The climbing terrain without equipment or a climbing skill is treacherous-to-plain-lethal. A thief could do it fairly easily, as could someone with mountaineering skill (with a slight risk). In any event, it'll probably be rather hot.

There is PLENTY of cover in gullys, crags, and other formations. Unfortunately, every once in a while, some of these seem to vent gas or flame... Think Mount Doom from Return of the King.

Now, as for the Astroglobe, well, yes, it quite likely COULD be a genie prison. And, according to Flint's knowledge of genie lore, the fact that the prison is in the shape of an astroglobe means that it probably has multiple "jails" or "slots", each only accessible when a certain constellation is visible (the Arabs were passionate and consumate astronomers -- assume Zakhara has a full zodiac of the 12 traditional signs). So it is quite plausible that up to 11 other genies are still stuck in the globe. Although an efreet could probably handle a "dip" in lava, the others would almost certainly die.

Howdy Steven!

You are correct about suicide and success, but Harbinder for one is on this mission as a means to a further end. She's quite clear on that point. Not that I really think anyone is up for going kamakazi, but it's role-play...

As for flying within sight of the Forge, well, it all depends on which kind of genie catches you...some are dogmatic about the literal rules (efreet) while others are more concerned with the spirit of the rules (djinn). Others fall between (dao and marid). But, more likely than not, you might be onto something (if flying up a volcano blind-folded feel safe....

Magic might be able to reveal the contents of the various prisons, but I believe divination is a 3rd level spell and thus unavailable at this time. Normally, a genie prison is a more mundane object without any reference to the stars, while this is an ellaborate and costly item, more like a regular magical device.

As for guarding the animals, just a thought, but leaving one PC vs a single fire giant is just a death sentance...

David

[adam]

Hi Guys,

I too prefer the back side of the mountain. But I have some concerns.

If we send someone up blindfolded and flying how are they going to get to the right point for dropping the globe? (Especially if they are attacked/challenged/tricked by someone). I suppose they could fly up to the edge, land, and then remove the blindfold, get a sighting and either throw or move again.

Alternate to that would be to have the monkey climb to the rim and guide the blind flier.

I am not sure that night helps in climbing the mountain. Can our genii friends see in the dark? If so then we would be better off during the day where we can see what we are doing.

It sounded like climbing is going to be pretty tough. I don't know if we have a climber (either thief or skill) with us. Though monkey's are natural climbers.

2000 ft is a long way for any non-climbers if we try and stay together. How about a combination where we climb as we can the 45 degree section and then use the potion(s) of flying as a climbing aid for the last bit, but use them with out ever leaving contact with the ground (thus we are not flying). Concept is to hand walk or crawl up the sides of the mountain.

I think we should consider that we might be in sight of some being at all times. Given that we have or believe we had a number of invisible companions for a bit sticking to the rules is probably going to be important.

I do think that unless we feel someone can make an end run and be successful we should stick together if we possibly can. Otherwise someone is likely to get killed. There is wisdom in the strength of numbers.

If we don't think climbing will work very well then perhaps we need to look at the front door. Maybe if we go partway up the side and then skittle around to the doors we can come in the side of the fire giants and avoid boulder alley. (if they detect us it is hard to shoot boulders around a curve).

I don't think that we should leave anyone to guard the animals. It's too bad we did not think to offer the horses to our digging attackers if they would hide the camels for a bit.

As to the globe as a prison. This puts Orn in a tough place. Enslavement of someone who is enlightened is a sin. Suicide is a sin. Killing someone who is enlightened is a bad thing. (David correct me if I am wrong on those). If the prisoners are enlightened then killing them is counter to what Orn would do. If they are not then it does not really matter, because the globe could be used to enslave someone enlightened. And given that a sin is more compelling than a bad thing Orn would be ok with killing the occupants anyway to prevent future sins.

<Got to love religious arguments>

Have we tried to communicate with the occupants of the globe? Should we?

Adam

[David]

Howdy Adam,

You're right on the money, although killing anyone in the Astroglobe under these conditions would be murder (they couldn't fight back) and thus more heinous. If the globe is "occupied" then killing the "prisoners" would be an evil act IF they are enlightened and/or non-Evil. Killing someone is only okay after trial-by-combat (common medieval belief), although the Enlightened should be spared whenever possible. Guessing or not caring would be ethically bankrupt too. The party really knows very little about the Globe.

[adam]

(a portion of something discussed with David that is important to talk about)

So Orn is in a wierd place. He has suddenly come into
the knowledge that there might be prisoners in the orb
currently. If so, and if there is a reasonible chance
that this is so, he can not, and will not be party to
destorying the globe. In fact he is bound to make a
reasonible effort to prevent such a destruction until
the prison is empty. Performing a henious act is counter to all of his background, beliefs and training. (see comments in above post about murder)

The party seems pretty bound to destroying the globe.
That leaves Orn in trouble since he helped the party get this far, and used the spells of my god to do it. I read that as pretty big trouble.

Can we determine if this is indeed a prison, and if so occupied, or perhaps maybe not a prison? If this is going to take awhile should we call this a trial run and hike back out of the desert? <sigh> This may be more true if we need more information than we can find written in the sand.

We need (ok Orn needs) more information about the globe before we can destroy it. Anybody have any ideas?

I suppose we could just walk up to one of the locals and ask them what this thing is.

[David I did not include your reply to parts of this as I did not consider it my place to do so]

Adam

[sgeorge1701]

adam said:

We need (ok Orn needs) more information about the globe before we can destroy it. Anybody have any ideas?

I STRONGLY suggest we keep our voices low so as not to be overheard.

(grins) I find this very interesting on a moral level. Orm *assumes* that only he is concerned with the moral treatment of possible prisoners. Rest assured - Flint sees this as an incredibly heavy burden. The murder of Innocent enlightened people for the greater good of Djinni-kind flies right in the face of all things good and decent.

If there are enlightened Djinn in this Globe - the dropping of the item into the lava of the Genie's Forge will be murder - plain and simple.

That is untenable.

It is NOT an option to hold onto this item and leave the Genie's Anvil and fight each and every powerful Efreeti or evil creature trying to claim the globe for their own. Also, dropping the globe into the lava will 1) Kill all non-efreet in the prison, release those self-same efreet who will 2) See a flying mage with a blindfold who just dropped an artifact of incredible power any efreeti would love to have AND seeing that mage FLYING above the lava fields of a RESTRICTED zone for non-mortals. Will gleefully blast any and all of us to our demise where we will IMMEDIATELY be put in judgement for our cold blooded murder of enlightened Djinn.

Murder is a sin for all good characters. It weighs heavily on the mind.

Leaving the globe in the hands of the efreet is foolish beyond measure.

I suggest a third path.

1) Damage the Globe in the lava at the edge of the volcano - not drop it in the lava, roll it in the edge (hoping the lava with damage the globe, but not drown it in lava.) Dangerous and unpredictable. How will the energy be released?

OR

2) Sneak around the front and kill the Fire Giants and go in the front door - attempting to use the tools of the Forge itself to DESTROY the globe AND liberate inhabitants.

Flint

[adam]

Hi,

Voices down is a good thing. Getting killed while we argue about how we should die is just annoying.

I apologize if I made it seem that it was just Orn tied up with the moral problems. I do not believe that. Orn actually knows from discussions with David that Harbinder also has some moral issues with this as well.

I agree that murder is untenable. Orn also has the issue that if he completes this act, he gets not only guilt, but stripped of his powers and probably banned from them for life, assuming he does not die on the spot when the gods come back on-line.

I think trying to roll the globe in the edge of the fire and damage it to release the prisoners is risky, but is ok from a moral issue. I am basing this on the concept that we tried to free the prisoners to the best of our abilities but damaged the prison in the process killing them. Kinda like getting a hostage killed while making a rescue. bad most definitely but not heinous. (David can you check me on that as these are Orn's beliefs not mine)

I do think it might be worth doing a little bit of experimentation to see if we could release prisoners by just setting them free. I would hate to hear later that all we had to do was hold the globe up and say "I free you" or something like that.

Going in the front doors and using the tools inside is also a bit risky. Do we have an idea of how the forge works? Ie is it your traditional being behind and anvil banging out wishes or is it just a rock sticking out into the lava?

Orn (Adam)

[sgeorge1701]

Step 1 - I don't want to say the words "I free you" Just in case the Next Creature in the Prison is an Efrit.

But I strongly agree. We can demand that the prisoners come forth and help us (1 at a time). With Luck there is a Jann or other helpful creature that we can have access to.

Normally, Astronomy prisons are based on the alignments of the stars in the heavens. My hope is that since the globe does still act as a prison - we *might just* have access to all the astrological jail cells (the device may not know what "month" it is so we can access all the cells. (its a shot and not too long.

My thoughts on the Forge are thus:

We gain access and find a Djinni smith to help us. Remember - sacrificing magical items can be used by the forge to "cut a deal". I'm hopeful that the smith that will "deal" with us has the ability/knowledge to free the prisons and then destroy the globe.

Yes - we need friends and allies - but we are doing the right thing to get them.

Flint

[David]

Howdy folks,

Let me try and answer everyone...

Orn: killing an innocent is a sin (evil act). Now, if it's an accident, that's one thing, but if it's a "well, we tried but got you killed, now where's that treasure" sort, then that would be an evil act of apathy. Better to risk it all and die with honor than live without it (see the link I posted earlier today).

Flint: although you do NOT have a skill in Astronomy, it's clear that the heavens are ALL screwed up. None of the traditional constellations looks right (and I'm using the same as our world, at least for Arabic and Greek cultures). How this will affect the globe is unknown. Unfortunately, while Flint is knowledgeable about Genie Lore, he knows little about Astromancy either.

Harbinder: I do NOT want to kill or allow to be killed an innocent. If the astroglobe holds efreet or dao, let's toss it in, but otherwise, no, we have to protect it. It has been my experience dealing with powerful magical beings that they do not always have the wisdom they claim. Perhaps Namared and Dilirum didn't bother to wonder about who might still be ensnared in the globe. Or, because of zealous beliefs, didn't care (Flint would doubt that, based on their alignment). Whatever's the case, we cannot "toss it in and hope" as that would make us no better than orcs...

[adam]

Ok,

Well that seems to give me marching good orders. Orn thinks the party needs to experiment with the globe. If our experiments are unsuccessful then we need to find a sage/wise-person/library and find out how to work the thing (and/or what it is). Even if that means leaving and coming back later.

David do we role play the trying things mode, or just spend time at it with various chances of success?

A concept is to ask one of the locals (one of the good guys) how we might release any prisoners.

I do note that we do not have a definitive answer as to if this is a prison or not.

If we think that the discovery phase is going to take a long time we may need to consider leaving just to keep our selves alive.

Adam

[David]

Howdy Adam,

If folks would like to play with the Globe, then I think we should do that in person, if only because a) not everyone is as wired as the three of us (You, Steven, and I), and b) other PCs might have some input on this.

The next question, of course, is where are we going to go to play with the thing. I mean, do we really want to do it in the shadow of the Genies' Forge?

[adam]

Hmm. A shadow. That means it is cooler yes?

In person works.

I suppose it depends on how long we think we are going to have to play with the globe. If it a few hours then it is probably ok to do so where we are. Otherwise we might want to truck out while we still have horses and camels.

Adam

[Artec]

Sabuto, Alignment Lawful Neutral."Then we have wasted an enitre week and a half of our time for nothing if we leave now. We came here to Destroy this globe. The two geni's that we helped rescue said to destroy it. Wouldn' t they have said something about who or what is trapped in there? If we waste our time by travleing a whole 10 or more days back then we have to find a sage or what ever Harbender cannot go and help her brother."
Ray

[Stephanous]

Hi All,

I have many things to say here.

1) Where did you get the idea that the item we possess is a Genie prison? I believe what we were told was that it gave the weilder power over genies. Somewhere, someone used the word prison and it stuck, however, David as DM nor any of the Genies ever used the word prison. Therefore, it stands to reason that this thing is probably not a prison. Also, granted that the Genies are not totally bright, they would have probably told us if there was another Genie trapped inside and asked us to free that Genie(s).

2) We were told that we couldn't fly within sight of the Genie's Forge. That wasn't saying that we couldn't fly if we could see the Genie's Forge, therefore, if you try to fly and just close your eyes the Genies are going to laugh at you and then squash you for being stupid.

3) From David's write-up on giants we know that Fire Giants-
-have a strength of 22, which is about +10 to damage
- they can do a maximum of 5d6 damage
-can wear armor, but have a base AC of 3
- are around 11 hit die creatures, giving them a THACO of about 11, which means if they roll a 1 they hit AC 7, which means that they will probably hit ANYONE in the party pretty much every time.
-so they pretty much hit one person every round doing 17+10= 27hp every round. This would either stun or outright kill anyone in the party except for Sabuto, and even he would only last a few rounds.

4) I believe that fighting the giants is out since not only will we die, but we won't accomplish our mission. This also means not entering the forge, unless we want to wander around the base looking for another entrance and hoping we don't meet any giants or genies along the way.

5) Flying to the top of the Forge is out since whoever does it will be killed.

6) So it sounds to me like the best course of action is to climb the mountain. This will be hard and our animals will probably die left alone, but if we are truely going to accomplish this, and we have no other magical means to get up there, then this is our answer.

Paul,
aka un-named monkey girl

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