Post by David on Sept 19, 2006 12:53:56 GMT -5
Howdy folks,
One thing that has come up many times in the past is that difference in viewpoint between the (modern) players and the (in-game) characters. Sometimes this is a question of our liberated, enlightened, post-modern attitudes interfering with the VERY localized and regional attitudes of every civilization prior to the Western, industrial ones of the last 50 or so years. If this seems vague, let me try to put a sharper point on it: for nearly EVERY PC, your culture is better than all others. Period. Sure, there are a VERY few exceptions, but in regard to 98+% of “outsiders” encountered, those who are different are WRONG, INFERIOR, and potentially DANGEROUS.
While this may strike of arrogance to the modern ear, it is the attitude and "known truth" of the last 49 of 50 centuries of the human experience; only for the last 2% of recorded history have humans NOT felt sure that other cultures fall somewhere in a spectrum of “they’re not as cool” to “they suck” to “they should be slaughtered like the vermin they are!” The trouble is, not enough players remember this while role-playing their characters!
Compare how Americans and French view each other, even today. Now, take the stereotype (which is actually fairly well-grounded in reality) and multiply that many times and make that the NORM. Jingoism (severe ethnocentrism) is appropriate for a pre-modern civilization. And that would be all cultures found in a Dnd universe. Your characters SHOULD look down on beings from other lands, cultures, and races!
Even today, in 2006, many people look at those from other cultures as different; our parents’ generation of Europeans honestly believe the Germans, French, Danes, Belgians, Italians, Finns, etc are inherently different from themselves. Away from the coasts of America, most conservative “white folk” hold a similar view toward Asians, Blacks, and Latinos. Now, move the hands of time and cultural openness back to the late Renaissance… It makes COMPLETE sense that Greeks look at Celts and Norsemen as uncouth, dangerous barbarians (the word actually comes from the Greek term to refer to everyone NOT Greek!), that Chinese and Sumerians scorn the Egyptians (each culture being VERY enthocentric), that Japanese question the human value of Amerinds or Oerdians/Europeans (don’t fall into idealized 60’s notions of the Amerinds; other tribes were warred upon simply for being different; it was the US Army that united them!). Heck, the Aztecs and Babylonians got OFF taking out other, marginally-different peoples around them! The ONLY possible culture to escape this to a limited degree would be the Zakharas/Arabs, and only for religious reasons and within a limited scope (Islam/the Enlightened faith is the ONLY pre-industrial belief-system that emphasizes human worth regardless of ethnic origin!)
“But I don’t want my characters to be like that,” you might moan. “I want my characters to be ‘enlightened’ and ‘open-minded’,” you complain. Okay, well then, you suck at role-play then. Period. You might as well play hobbit, Star Fleet, samurai, jedi-knights with cyberjacks in their heads, magnum six-shooters, and personal deflector screens…! Seriously, having a FEW PCs who aren’t ethnocentric is okay, but anything else is just lame, munchkin-gaming – on par with saying your mage is building a bicycle, glider, or steam-engine “cuz the technology was available…!” LAME LAME LAME!
Now, I’m willing to give some liberalism to pre-industrial societies, on par with what the BEST of various late-Renaissance cultures had. So, while not completely culturally accurate, human PCs can reasonable hold that:
• Slavery is not good (only achieved really in the last 4% of human history)
• Women and men are basically equal (we still don’t really have this!)
• Children shouldn’t be treated as small adults (again only in the last 4% of Western history!)
The normal attitude for most human Dnd characters, however, should read something like this, with only MINOR variation for culture:
• My culture is better than others
• My race is superior to others (others might have some special abilities, but it’s a self-worth issue to find value in your own race, otherwise humans wouldn’t be where they are, which is running the world!)
• The less like a human something looks, the less value it has (hey, this attitude really does persist to this day for most people with an honest eye; we generally only safe "cute" endangered species!)
• Evil is real and dangerous
• All undead are BAD
• Necromancy is vile and evil
• Lycanthropy is dangerous and treacherous
• Witchcraft is corrupting and insidious
• Things are the way they are for a good reason: it is the natural order laid down by the GODS -- and anyone who goes against this threatens to undo the natural laws!
• Gods are real and to be obeyed (either because they’re just or because they’ll get you if you don’t do things their way, take your pick!)
• Humans must follow the rules of the gods, even if they do not agree with them
• Some people are better than others – nobles are inherently wiser, smarter, and more valuable than commoners. They are the natural rulers and should be obeyed.
• There’s no such thing as “chemistry” or “physics” – the only real ‘sciences’ are the various forms of magic.
• There’s no such thing as psionics – those who say otherwise are either dumb or have been duped by forms of magic or witchcraft
• The world is flat and the sun, moon, and stars revolve around the Oerth (sure Greeks and Arabs knew better, but even mythological cosmology disagrees, so this couldn't have been a commonly-held view, i.e. unless you're an intellectual, have experienced teleport-lag, or have heard of spell-jamming, the world is FLAT).
If your character holds more than one or two attitudes different from this, then s/he either needs a FANTASTIC reason (role-play, skills, experience with the view), or, I reserve the right to intentionally target, fuck-with, harass, and plain-kill said PC cuz s/he’s in violation of the rules, just like if I caught you fudging your dice rolls, doctoring your character sheet, or otherwise “bending” things to your favor when you know better.
Sure, there will be some exceptions to all this (Nutak grew up on the starship which Flora and Tarquin served aboard, Quendi and Yavin have spent nearly a decade spell-jamming [where post-modernism is FAR more appropriate!], and a number of PCs like Brand, Chastity, and Phillipe have taken appropriate skills like philosophy), but, again, those guys are the exception and THESE IDEAS SHOULD BE THE NORM!
If you don’t like it, well, why not roll up a wookie wizard with his personal veritech-golem and AK47 of slaying…and if you disagree, well, I’d be happy to give you multiple cross-cultural examples of EVERY statement I made; sorry, I have history and human-nature on my side with this one…!
And because I love to give examples….
• Most Oerdian PCs should look at Chastity and think, “she’s not as good as me because she’s Shou Lung/Chinese/Asian.” Sure, folks that know her could have learned to get past that, but prior to the 1940’s that was the norm in the US…and still fairly common in other Western, industrialized nations today…
• Most PCs should look at Moorak and think, “well, he may have saved the world twice and be the greatest hero of this generation, but he is a self-admitted pagan/witch-follower so some of what he says/does is suspect.” Again, if he saved someone’s village from giants or dragons, they’ll probably totally get over that, but not religious folks who’ve never benefited from his actions.
• Most PCs should have looked at Arianna (when she was still one of the Grateful Dead) and immediately distrusted her because she was undead. The gods (who are real and appear in person frequently enough!) say that undead are evil and untrustworthy, so that’s that. And she’s a Greek on top of it all, and you know how THEY are…
• Most PCs should look at Black Robe and think, “what a dirty, savage barbarian. He doesn’t dress decently. He slathers paint on his body and thinks he talks to spirits!” Hey, real-world Amerinds have only had their spirituality commonly accepted for less than a couple generations (the 60’s or so). Any "civilized" culture (Greek, Egyptian, Chinese, Indian, etc) should see Amerinds as potential Hunns/Mongols/Vandals/etc.
I know that some of you are going to have issue with this. But the truth is, you're short-changing the PCs who HAVE good reasons to be enlightened by playing ALL of your characters that way. Just like you complain if someone started their new PC at 5th level when you had to work to get there, so too should you complain when a new PC starts with knowledge and views that s/he didn't earn!
C'mon, Moorak may be the oldest surviving PC. After nearly 25 years of play, he STILL maintains a number of issues from the list, despite probably having had a good reason to drop them. But real people don't abandon their culture without a good reason. And a good role-play attemps to portray a character as close to a real person as possible.
(For those curious, Moorak still has a serious issue with lycanthropy, has never heard of the modern sciences, although has battled mind flayer has little understanding of psionics, and only knows the world is round cuz he's gone into orbit.)
(Other, powerful [9th lvl], less-cosmic, more grounded characters, like Daisy, swallow almost the whole list still -- she'd MUCH rather be a hobbit, the less hobbit-like the more monster-like, evil beings, undead, lycanthropes, necromancers, and witches are all naughty [including Moorak!], the natural order is the way of the gods and it would dangerous to oppose it, the only forms of science are magic, and psionics are the strange-magic of mind flayers [and Andar and Tyris=Flare]. It's only because of her magical ring that she knows the world is round [she's still not sure about what orbits what] and she's met enough corrupt nobles not to automatically value them above herself.)
One thing that has come up many times in the past is that difference in viewpoint between the (modern) players and the (in-game) characters. Sometimes this is a question of our liberated, enlightened, post-modern attitudes interfering with the VERY localized and regional attitudes of every civilization prior to the Western, industrial ones of the last 50 or so years. If this seems vague, let me try to put a sharper point on it: for nearly EVERY PC, your culture is better than all others. Period. Sure, there are a VERY few exceptions, but in regard to 98+% of “outsiders” encountered, those who are different are WRONG, INFERIOR, and potentially DANGEROUS.
While this may strike of arrogance to the modern ear, it is the attitude and "known truth" of the last 49 of 50 centuries of the human experience; only for the last 2% of recorded history have humans NOT felt sure that other cultures fall somewhere in a spectrum of “they’re not as cool” to “they suck” to “they should be slaughtered like the vermin they are!” The trouble is, not enough players remember this while role-playing their characters!
Compare how Americans and French view each other, even today. Now, take the stereotype (which is actually fairly well-grounded in reality) and multiply that many times and make that the NORM. Jingoism (severe ethnocentrism) is appropriate for a pre-modern civilization. And that would be all cultures found in a Dnd universe. Your characters SHOULD look down on beings from other lands, cultures, and races!
Even today, in 2006, many people look at those from other cultures as different; our parents’ generation of Europeans honestly believe the Germans, French, Danes, Belgians, Italians, Finns, etc are inherently different from themselves. Away from the coasts of America, most conservative “white folk” hold a similar view toward Asians, Blacks, and Latinos. Now, move the hands of time and cultural openness back to the late Renaissance… It makes COMPLETE sense that Greeks look at Celts and Norsemen as uncouth, dangerous barbarians (the word actually comes from the Greek term to refer to everyone NOT Greek!), that Chinese and Sumerians scorn the Egyptians (each culture being VERY enthocentric), that Japanese question the human value of Amerinds or Oerdians/Europeans (don’t fall into idealized 60’s notions of the Amerinds; other tribes were warred upon simply for being different; it was the US Army that united them!). Heck, the Aztecs and Babylonians got OFF taking out other, marginally-different peoples around them! The ONLY possible culture to escape this to a limited degree would be the Zakharas/Arabs, and only for religious reasons and within a limited scope (Islam/the Enlightened faith is the ONLY pre-industrial belief-system that emphasizes human worth regardless of ethnic origin!)
“But I don’t want my characters to be like that,” you might moan. “I want my characters to be ‘enlightened’ and ‘open-minded’,” you complain. Okay, well then, you suck at role-play then. Period. You might as well play hobbit, Star Fleet, samurai, jedi-knights with cyberjacks in their heads, magnum six-shooters, and personal deflector screens…! Seriously, having a FEW PCs who aren’t ethnocentric is okay, but anything else is just lame, munchkin-gaming – on par with saying your mage is building a bicycle, glider, or steam-engine “cuz the technology was available…!” LAME LAME LAME!
Now, I’m willing to give some liberalism to pre-industrial societies, on par with what the BEST of various late-Renaissance cultures had. So, while not completely culturally accurate, human PCs can reasonable hold that:
• Slavery is not good (only achieved really in the last 4% of human history)
• Women and men are basically equal (we still don’t really have this!)
• Children shouldn’t be treated as small adults (again only in the last 4% of Western history!)
The normal attitude for most human Dnd characters, however, should read something like this, with only MINOR variation for culture:
• My culture is better than others
• My race is superior to others (others might have some special abilities, but it’s a self-worth issue to find value in your own race, otherwise humans wouldn’t be where they are, which is running the world!)
• The less like a human something looks, the less value it has (hey, this attitude really does persist to this day for most people with an honest eye; we generally only safe "cute" endangered species!)
• Evil is real and dangerous
• All undead are BAD
• Necromancy is vile and evil
• Lycanthropy is dangerous and treacherous
• Witchcraft is corrupting and insidious
• Things are the way they are for a good reason: it is the natural order laid down by the GODS -- and anyone who goes against this threatens to undo the natural laws!
• Gods are real and to be obeyed (either because they’re just or because they’ll get you if you don’t do things their way, take your pick!)
• Humans must follow the rules of the gods, even if they do not agree with them
• Some people are better than others – nobles are inherently wiser, smarter, and more valuable than commoners. They are the natural rulers and should be obeyed.
• There’s no such thing as “chemistry” or “physics” – the only real ‘sciences’ are the various forms of magic.
• There’s no such thing as psionics – those who say otherwise are either dumb or have been duped by forms of magic or witchcraft
• The world is flat and the sun, moon, and stars revolve around the Oerth (sure Greeks and Arabs knew better, but even mythological cosmology disagrees, so this couldn't have been a commonly-held view, i.e. unless you're an intellectual, have experienced teleport-lag, or have heard of spell-jamming, the world is FLAT).
If your character holds more than one or two attitudes different from this, then s/he either needs a FANTASTIC reason (role-play, skills, experience with the view), or, I reserve the right to intentionally target, fuck-with, harass, and plain-kill said PC cuz s/he’s in violation of the rules, just like if I caught you fudging your dice rolls, doctoring your character sheet, or otherwise “bending” things to your favor when you know better.
Sure, there will be some exceptions to all this (Nutak grew up on the starship which Flora and Tarquin served aboard, Quendi and Yavin have spent nearly a decade spell-jamming [where post-modernism is FAR more appropriate!], and a number of PCs like Brand, Chastity, and Phillipe have taken appropriate skills like philosophy), but, again, those guys are the exception and THESE IDEAS SHOULD BE THE NORM!
If you don’t like it, well, why not roll up a wookie wizard with his personal veritech-golem and AK47 of slaying…and if you disagree, well, I’d be happy to give you multiple cross-cultural examples of EVERY statement I made; sorry, I have history and human-nature on my side with this one…!
And because I love to give examples….
• Most Oerdian PCs should look at Chastity and think, “she’s not as good as me because she’s Shou Lung/Chinese/Asian.” Sure, folks that know her could have learned to get past that, but prior to the 1940’s that was the norm in the US…and still fairly common in other Western, industrialized nations today…
• Most PCs should look at Moorak and think, “well, he may have saved the world twice and be the greatest hero of this generation, but he is a self-admitted pagan/witch-follower so some of what he says/does is suspect.” Again, if he saved someone’s village from giants or dragons, they’ll probably totally get over that, but not religious folks who’ve never benefited from his actions.
• Most PCs should have looked at Arianna (when she was still one of the Grateful Dead) and immediately distrusted her because she was undead. The gods (who are real and appear in person frequently enough!) say that undead are evil and untrustworthy, so that’s that. And she’s a Greek on top of it all, and you know how THEY are…
• Most PCs should look at Black Robe and think, “what a dirty, savage barbarian. He doesn’t dress decently. He slathers paint on his body and thinks he talks to spirits!” Hey, real-world Amerinds have only had their spirituality commonly accepted for less than a couple generations (the 60’s or so). Any "civilized" culture (Greek, Egyptian, Chinese, Indian, etc) should see Amerinds as potential Hunns/Mongols/Vandals/etc.
I know that some of you are going to have issue with this. But the truth is, you're short-changing the PCs who HAVE good reasons to be enlightened by playing ALL of your characters that way. Just like you complain if someone started their new PC at 5th level when you had to work to get there, so too should you complain when a new PC starts with knowledge and views that s/he didn't earn!
C'mon, Moorak may be the oldest surviving PC. After nearly 25 years of play, he STILL maintains a number of issues from the list, despite probably having had a good reason to drop them. But real people don't abandon their culture without a good reason. And a good role-play attemps to portray a character as close to a real person as possible.
(For those curious, Moorak still has a serious issue with lycanthropy, has never heard of the modern sciences, although has battled mind flayer has little understanding of psionics, and only knows the world is round cuz he's gone into orbit.)
(Other, powerful [9th lvl], less-cosmic, more grounded characters, like Daisy, swallow almost the whole list still -- she'd MUCH rather be a hobbit, the less hobbit-like the more monster-like, evil beings, undead, lycanthropes, necromancers, and witches are all naughty [including Moorak!], the natural order is the way of the gods and it would dangerous to oppose it, the only forms of science are magic, and psionics are the strange-magic of mind flayers [and Andar and Tyris=Flare]. It's only because of her magical ring that she knows the world is round [she's still not sure about what orbits what] and she's met enough corrupt nobles not to automatically value them above herself.)
