Post by David on Jan 16, 2014 15:19:19 GMT -5
This entry is stream of consciousness-sorta, but I thought it might be helpful for players.
Hey David! I'm DM'ing a game that has a PC psionicist with Shape Alteration, and I was hoping to get some advice on how to treat this incredible power. While the initial cost is substantial, the upkeep is minimal, and at X/turn. This Player keeps wanting to metamorph into mechanical contraptions, partially transform to acquire animal abilities such as compound eyes of a fly or hearing like a bat, you get the idea. What's happening is he is using the power to solve his problems in vastly more fantastical ways than expected and I am beginning to regret allowing the power into the game in the first place. While the description in your psionics article and the Psion Handbook state that a psion with shape alteration can gain the attacks of the form but not the special abilities, it is unclear to me whether mundane creatures and their passive abilities count under "special" for example, a man metamorphing into a dog ought to have better smell then before, but should a man metamorphing into a life-sized mantis shrimp become capable of seeing additional wavelengths on the spectra of electromagnetic radiation? (I.E. light) what about bat echolocation? Furthermore, how capable is this Science of shifting forms back and forth? once the power has been activated, does the psion have any limitations to how many forms he can assume and how quickly? I was considering ruling that this power requires "practice" and that "forms" are something one must master before using them in life-and-death situations. However, that would restrict a metamorph-centered character to some sort of ruling like "One altered shape you know you can do/level", so that each level of Mastery in Metamorphing would allow for greater variation. However, this also feels like a ham-handed, constricting way of balancing a power that otherwise allow a character to be very creative. How much freedom does this power have in your imaginary realms?
Howdy Alex! Great questions. My answers are based on one-part science fictions "mythology" (great non-magical shapeshifters of literature and movies), one-part pure science (conservation of matter/energy), and one-part game-balance/logic.I've had PCs with Shape Alternation in my universe before. A couple in fact.
While the official rules allow for mass change, I have always made psionics obey the laws of physics (otherwise, they'd be magic!), which means that "matter can neither be created nor destroyed." This means a shapeshifter must maintain the same body mass between forms. So that's the first limitation -- no becoming a fly cuz flies are tiny and you gotta retain the mass.
There is a way around that, but I don't want to muddy the waters yet (and I'd say that it'd be hard to use the "escape hatch" anyway).
The second limitation is based off the first. Physics applies to the new form and magic DOES NOT. So, if you want to become something that flies, you better make sure that the mechanics of flight work without magic. Pixies shouldn't be able to fly and a man-sized pixie definitely couldn't get sufficient lift to take off (without ripping their back off due to the stress of forces!). Some races might get a "buy" like Kenku and Aaracrocra, but I would rule any form that is in doubt probably gets a magic "boost".
Extending this logic, just because you become a dog does NOT give you a dogs nose. The psionist has reshaped their body form but unless they know what neural structures there are in the snout of a canine, it's SUPER unlikely that the change is anything more than skin deep. Cut them open, and they bleed human blood with human DNA and human cellular structures, just reshaped into an odd layout. So, AC comes because the rules say it does (the skin is thicker, though magical ACs do NOT apply -- no becoming dragons and getting all THOSE perks!) and so too do movement abilities (except for some magical movements, which might include flight in some cases). I would also allow attack ABILITIES but not the corresponding proficiency -- you might have the claws of an umber hulk, but do you know how to use them? Non-proficiency penalties DO apply (which is funny, cuz in my world, there are a number of PCs proficient in "claw" or "bite" thanks to having spent some time as a monster).
This means that unless you've ever actually BEEN a bat (magically), you've no idea what they can do (ancient peoples had no idea they had echolocation -- it's modern science which told us this). A Dnd PC would know that bats can "see" in the dark and unless/until they actually become one (magically), the mechanics are unknown.Extending that, let someone become a man-sized bat. Physics says they can't fly. And they'll find that they can't see in the dark.Without having spent some time as a magically polymorphed bat, echolocation will be unknown as well. In effect, the character gets a physical makeover that's not too helpful...This same logic extends to seeing in other spectra (mantis shrimp) and other abilities outside the human range. Now, again, there are ways around these limitations.
Wonderful! That is simply brilliant. So proficiencies (representing familiarity with the form) could be taken in Bat Echolocation or Claw/Claw/bite or Squid-sight, should the PC discover the nature of these non-magical abilities through their adventures.
Yes, the party has gotten into the habit of Enlarging their psion before anything gets violent. This has caused them to get in a lot more violent situations than if they were less trigger-happy.
There is another psionic ability, animal affinity, that lets a person ACTUALLY get the structures of various animals. I would argue this power works similar to what human fetuses go through as they trace our evolutionary phylogeny (yes, that's not perfectly accurate, but it's a good model).Yes, that's the other "way around" these limitations -- relevant proficiencies. But I would limit buy the skill until the PC has a good enough reason -- usually cuz of magical shapeshift for powers although fiendish Frankenstein-like experimentation also works. Practice for combat skills also works.
that's what I've been arguing. The player wants to utilize the discipline Expansion and the spell Enlarge, but I believe that since the sources (meta-science and Arcane magic) are different, the two do not "stack"
First, I have the big initial charge for CHANGING shape but I do NOT make anyone pay a maintenance fee. If this is science, then the dude has actually re-arranged his anatomy accordingly and it's going to stay put until it "heals" back to it's normal configuration. That's where magic does NOT get along...healing magics should also, logically, "cure" shape changing. So, the psi must pay extra to maintain their shape each time they're healed. I have one psi (with animal affinity) that has to deal with this all the time. Self healing via cell adjustment should have no problem (or via another shapeshifting psi with cell adjustment), but all other healing should trigger a psi cost to maintain the shifted shape.
And changing shape should take TIME -- 1 round per level of mastery in pounds changed. That means for most PCs, it takes many minutes to effect a large shift.I also change extra for changing body plans -- going from biped to quadraped, for instance. Creativity is encouraged -- you wanna be a rock, ok! -- but doing so means "exploring a brave new world" that might have consequences...did you really forget that rocks don't have eyes? How did you see those orcs coming that are now sitting on you...?
so the cost to remain shifted whilst being healed is the same as the cost to initiate?
I totally agree about stacking magic and psionics -- they're called different things for a reason. Magic breaks the laws of physics, psionics does not. Also, I do not allow Expansion to make you larger. It increases your strength per the book, but not your mass.
Oh, really? I read the Psi handbook's description and immediately thought of the cartoon where that guy is made of rubber and he inflates himself - Expansion seemed like all it did was make the psi less dense. The strength increase was not apparent to me.
I charge the cost of the maintenance times the number of hit points divided by level of mastery, to a maximum of the initial cost.
A heal should turn a psionic shapeshifter back to what he was unless he "fights" it. Small heals should be "cheap" cuz they only do minor fixes while major healing should be a pain for shapeshifters cuz "I need to keep that muscle where *I* put it, not where my DNA thinks it goes...!"
There is another version of the discipline that makes you less dense (from Gamma World) but you get weaker and have worse AC with a better move.
That version makes you Elastic Girl...My model for psionics is that they're a manifestation of Jedi Force abilities. Jedi's pump their strength, dex, and con and use prescience to dodge and know stuff.They can even heal, but they generally do not do anything fantastical...Dnd psionics are a little broader than Lucas' vision...Also turning your arm into a crossbow wouldn't work. It would require metal (you can make the bone hard and metal-like, but it's still bone) AND moving parts (which means cutting off which fingers so they're separate from your body?) AND loss of mass (fingernails might be used to create a tiny projectile, but it's gonna hurt to lose the mass of a quarrel from your body...!). There's a section of the book, Logan's Run where they talk about the trauma of losing just two ounces of flesh...Does that help?
One last comment -- there are other abilities and powers which greatly augment Shape Alteration. This power is cool, but it is basically the power to regrow your body into a new layout. The underlying structures remain the same. Other powers, such as Animal Affinity (which is only a minor discipline in my world) can fill in many of the gaps, particularly biological ones, such as getting the eyes and ears of a tiger or nose and hibernation abilities of a bear, etc. Skills and experience are also super handy -- a druid with this power should have way more insight than a fighter, though I'd still probably require a skill in changing for some of the cool stuff ("Yes, you know you SHOULD have echolocation in bat form, but how does this ability work biologically? What muscles, bones, and nerves do you need to push where to replicate it?"). Changing a body is "trauma" and healing spells "fix" trauma, even self inflicted. Also, changes that are weird (growing a new set of limbs or turning into a quadraped) is gonna be harder (and take more time) than APPEARING to bulk up and change color or add tusks and scales. Shape Alteration is, after all, only a little more than skin-deep....
Hey David! I'm DM'ing a game that has a PC psionicist with Shape Alteration, and I was hoping to get some advice on how to treat this incredible power. While the initial cost is substantial, the upkeep is minimal, and at X/turn. This Player keeps wanting to metamorph into mechanical contraptions, partially transform to acquire animal abilities such as compound eyes of a fly or hearing like a bat, you get the idea. What's happening is he is using the power to solve his problems in vastly more fantastical ways than expected and I am beginning to regret allowing the power into the game in the first place. While the description in your psionics article and the Psion Handbook state that a psion with shape alteration can gain the attacks of the form but not the special abilities, it is unclear to me whether mundane creatures and their passive abilities count under "special" for example, a man metamorphing into a dog ought to have better smell then before, but should a man metamorphing into a life-sized mantis shrimp become capable of seeing additional wavelengths on the spectra of electromagnetic radiation? (I.E. light) what about bat echolocation? Furthermore, how capable is this Science of shifting forms back and forth? once the power has been activated, does the psion have any limitations to how many forms he can assume and how quickly? I was considering ruling that this power requires "practice" and that "forms" are something one must master before using them in life-and-death situations. However, that would restrict a metamorph-centered character to some sort of ruling like "One altered shape you know you can do/level", so that each level of Mastery in Metamorphing would allow for greater variation. However, this also feels like a ham-handed, constricting way of balancing a power that otherwise allow a character to be very creative. How much freedom does this power have in your imaginary realms?
Howdy Alex! Great questions. My answers are based on one-part science fictions "mythology" (great non-magical shapeshifters of literature and movies), one-part pure science (conservation of matter/energy), and one-part game-balance/logic.I've had PCs with Shape Alternation in my universe before. A couple in fact.
While the official rules allow for mass change, I have always made psionics obey the laws of physics (otherwise, they'd be magic!), which means that "matter can neither be created nor destroyed." This means a shapeshifter must maintain the same body mass between forms. So that's the first limitation -- no becoming a fly cuz flies are tiny and you gotta retain the mass.
There is a way around that, but I don't want to muddy the waters yet (and I'd say that it'd be hard to use the "escape hatch" anyway).
The second limitation is based off the first. Physics applies to the new form and magic DOES NOT. So, if you want to become something that flies, you better make sure that the mechanics of flight work without magic. Pixies shouldn't be able to fly and a man-sized pixie definitely couldn't get sufficient lift to take off (without ripping their back off due to the stress of forces!). Some races might get a "buy" like Kenku and Aaracrocra, but I would rule any form that is in doubt probably gets a magic "boost".
Extending this logic, just because you become a dog does NOT give you a dogs nose. The psionist has reshaped their body form but unless they know what neural structures there are in the snout of a canine, it's SUPER unlikely that the change is anything more than skin deep. Cut them open, and they bleed human blood with human DNA and human cellular structures, just reshaped into an odd layout. So, AC comes because the rules say it does (the skin is thicker, though magical ACs do NOT apply -- no becoming dragons and getting all THOSE perks!) and so too do movement abilities (except for some magical movements, which might include flight in some cases). I would also allow attack ABILITIES but not the corresponding proficiency -- you might have the claws of an umber hulk, but do you know how to use them? Non-proficiency penalties DO apply (which is funny, cuz in my world, there are a number of PCs proficient in "claw" or "bite" thanks to having spent some time as a monster).
This means that unless you've ever actually BEEN a bat (magically), you've no idea what they can do (ancient peoples had no idea they had echolocation -- it's modern science which told us this). A Dnd PC would know that bats can "see" in the dark and unless/until they actually become one (magically), the mechanics are unknown.Extending that, let someone become a man-sized bat. Physics says they can't fly. And they'll find that they can't see in the dark.Without having spent some time as a magically polymorphed bat, echolocation will be unknown as well. In effect, the character gets a physical makeover that's not too helpful...This same logic extends to seeing in other spectra (mantis shrimp) and other abilities outside the human range. Now, again, there are ways around these limitations.
Wonderful! That is simply brilliant. So proficiencies (representing familiarity with the form) could be taken in Bat Echolocation or Claw/Claw/bite or Squid-sight, should the PC discover the nature of these non-magical abilities through their adventures.
Yes, the party has gotten into the habit of Enlarging their psion before anything gets violent. This has caused them to get in a lot more violent situations than if they were less trigger-happy.
There is another psionic ability, animal affinity, that lets a person ACTUALLY get the structures of various animals. I would argue this power works similar to what human fetuses go through as they trace our evolutionary phylogeny (yes, that's not perfectly accurate, but it's a good model).Yes, that's the other "way around" these limitations -- relevant proficiencies. But I would limit buy the skill until the PC has a good enough reason -- usually cuz of magical shapeshift for powers although fiendish Frankenstein-like experimentation also works. Practice for combat skills also works.
that's what I've been arguing. The player wants to utilize the discipline Expansion and the spell Enlarge, but I believe that since the sources (meta-science and Arcane magic) are different, the two do not "stack"
First, I have the big initial charge for CHANGING shape but I do NOT make anyone pay a maintenance fee. If this is science, then the dude has actually re-arranged his anatomy accordingly and it's going to stay put until it "heals" back to it's normal configuration. That's where magic does NOT get along...healing magics should also, logically, "cure" shape changing. So, the psi must pay extra to maintain their shape each time they're healed. I have one psi (with animal affinity) that has to deal with this all the time. Self healing via cell adjustment should have no problem (or via another shapeshifting psi with cell adjustment), but all other healing should trigger a psi cost to maintain the shifted shape.
And changing shape should take TIME -- 1 round per level of mastery in pounds changed. That means for most PCs, it takes many minutes to effect a large shift.I also change extra for changing body plans -- going from biped to quadraped, for instance. Creativity is encouraged -- you wanna be a rock, ok! -- but doing so means "exploring a brave new world" that might have consequences...did you really forget that rocks don't have eyes? How did you see those orcs coming that are now sitting on you...?
so the cost to remain shifted whilst being healed is the same as the cost to initiate?
I totally agree about stacking magic and psionics -- they're called different things for a reason. Magic breaks the laws of physics, psionics does not. Also, I do not allow Expansion to make you larger. It increases your strength per the book, but not your mass.
Oh, really? I read the Psi handbook's description and immediately thought of the cartoon where that guy is made of rubber and he inflates himself - Expansion seemed like all it did was make the psi less dense. The strength increase was not apparent to me.
I charge the cost of the maintenance times the number of hit points divided by level of mastery, to a maximum of the initial cost.
A heal should turn a psionic shapeshifter back to what he was unless he "fights" it. Small heals should be "cheap" cuz they only do minor fixes while major healing should be a pain for shapeshifters cuz "I need to keep that muscle where *I* put it, not where my DNA thinks it goes...!"
There is another version of the discipline that makes you less dense (from Gamma World) but you get weaker and have worse AC with a better move.
That version makes you Elastic Girl...My model for psionics is that they're a manifestation of Jedi Force abilities. Jedi's pump their strength, dex, and con and use prescience to dodge and know stuff.They can even heal, but they generally do not do anything fantastical...Dnd psionics are a little broader than Lucas' vision...Also turning your arm into a crossbow wouldn't work. It would require metal (you can make the bone hard and metal-like, but it's still bone) AND moving parts (which means cutting off which fingers so they're separate from your body?) AND loss of mass (fingernails might be used to create a tiny projectile, but it's gonna hurt to lose the mass of a quarrel from your body...!). There's a section of the book, Logan's Run where they talk about the trauma of losing just two ounces of flesh...Does that help?
One last comment -- there are other abilities and powers which greatly augment Shape Alteration. This power is cool, but it is basically the power to regrow your body into a new layout. The underlying structures remain the same. Other powers, such as Animal Affinity (which is only a minor discipline in my world) can fill in many of the gaps, particularly biological ones, such as getting the eyes and ears of a tiger or nose and hibernation abilities of a bear, etc. Skills and experience are also super handy -- a druid with this power should have way more insight than a fighter, though I'd still probably require a skill in changing for some of the cool stuff ("Yes, you know you SHOULD have echolocation in bat form, but how does this ability work biologically? What muscles, bones, and nerves do you need to push where to replicate it?"). Changing a body is "trauma" and healing spells "fix" trauma, even self inflicted. Also, changes that are weird (growing a new set of limbs or turning into a quadraped) is gonna be harder (and take more time) than APPEARING to bulk up and change color or add tusks and scales. Shape Alteration is, after all, only a little more than skin-deep....
